David Miliband "In respect of sovereignty, it is not just me who can reassure the people of Gibraltar or Spain.  All three of us will make clear that this process does not threaten the back door to anywhere. "

Gibraltar: Ministerial Forum of Dialogue Transcript (03/07/2008)

David Miliband, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, UK

Good afternoon, everyone.  Welcome to London, especially the Spanish Foreign Minister, Miguel Ángel Moratinos, and the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, Peter Caruana.

We have just had the second meeting of the Trilateral Forum.  One of the rules of politics is that the second meeting of any organisation or process is always the test of whether it has the life, spirit or drive to make real progress.  My conclusion after this second meeting is that there is process here that offers the potential for real benefits to the people of Gibraltar and Spain.  It offers those benefits not just in the future, but today.  As a result of the work that has gone on since the last ministerial meeting, there are practical genuine benefits for people, which will help build trust and confidence.

It is important for me to say, on behalf of the UK, that the initiative these two gentlemen took, in establishing the Córdoba Process, was a political move of real courage, vision and insight about how to build confidence and trust, and make a process.  I want to pay tribute to both of them for the way they have launched the process and kept faith in it, and for the way they have today engaged in a very fruitful and positive exchange.

You will have seen the communiqué that is being issued.  If you not have already received a copy, it will be distributed straight afterwards.  You will see from the communiqué details of the progress we have reviewed from the Cordoba statements, including issues of pensions, the airport, the frontier and the Instituto Cervantes.  Importantly, you will also see a new drive because, at today’s meeting, we have agreed six new areas for cooperation in which Spanish and Gibraltarians will get together and discuss the important issues of:

• The environment.
• Financial services and taxation.
• Judicial customs and police cooperation.
• Maritime issues.
• Visa related issues.
• Education.

Across that range of six working groups, you see the breadth and the depth of the Process now moving forward.  From my point of view, I leave here today with renewed confidence not just in the Process as a process, but in the political commitment that exists both in the Government of Gibraltar and the Government of Spain to carry that forward.  To carry that forward, I think today has been good work.  We look forward to real, further agreements in the year ahead, before the next trilateral meeting.  

Miguel Ángel Moratinos, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Spain

I will use English to express this proof of friendship that comes from being in London with good friends.  I have to congratulate you and express my deep appreciation for the way David Miliband has organised this trilateral meeting at the ministerial level, having the principal minister of Gibraltar, Peter Caruana, with us here.

The Forum is working: it is advancing; it is progressing; it is producing results.  That was the spirit with which we launched it in Córdoba, when we agreed on issues of importance to all of us.  Thank you for gathering us here in London to demonstrate that this initiative is positive, needed and that we will be committed to working together to ensure that the next ministerial meeting will also be efficient and results oriented, as the one held in London has been.

I would like to express my deep satisfaction in being able to participate in this second ministerial meeting of the Tripartite Forum in Cordoba, in the sense of communicating the important move forward that we have made, both in the aims that we have set in Cordoba: the airport, pensions, telecommunications, the opening of the Institute Cervantes which has been announced since everything is ready, the building is ready, the funds for the remodelling of the building are present, and hence, in a short time the Institute Cervantes will be inaugurated in Gibraltar.

We are committed to looking towards the future with the promise to solve problems, all types of problems in which  the citizens, both of Gibraltar and the Campo de Gibraltar and the whole region, can see specific results. They have been mentioned by David Miliband, I would like to put special emphasis on two fundamental areas:

Firstly, environment and shipping, and then, all things related with financial services in order to change, as the Chief Minister of Gibraltar said, the perception of the financial situation in Gibraltar.

Regarding shipping and the environment, the three ministers, we want to be ambitious. We cannot allow situations like that of the ‘New Flame’ where it lacked mechanisms for cooperation, intervention, alert and prevention in order to address shipping, which is extremely important in the Gibraltar Strait. Therefore, this will be our new goal, our new challenge for the next ministerial meeting. Without a doubt, we are going to work with the Gibraltar authorities to improve the image, the work and information necessary regarding financial information.

The other issues are also very important: Judicial co-operation, security. Once again, we want show that it is a process that works, that achieves results, that is indispensable, and that all the parties here present want and will continue to work to obtain better results and benefits in order to create the most positive atmosphere possible between us all.

Peter Caruana,Chief Minister of Gibraltar

I am happy to subscribe to and ratify everything that both David and Miguel Ángel have said.  The Forum is fundamentally about addressing issues that not only affect the day-to-day lives of citizens in the region but, indeed, which concern them, like the environment and maritime safety, as Miguel Ángel has said.  These are all issues that we all hope will lead to more normal relations between Spain and Gibraltar than have been possible in the past.  We all know that serious issues separate us and that all the other parties are going to look after and protect their positions on these issues.  This process is respectful of that, because this is about striking agreements in the space that is created in the political will of the three sides to reach agreement on these areas that David Miliband has outlined, without undermining our fundamental position on issues such as sovereignty, which our determination to reach agreement gives us.  

There will be difficulties – there have been difficulties – but the three parties have the political will to overcome those difficulties so that we do not fail to reach agreements on issues that the citizens of Gibraltar and of Spain in general, but of the Campo in particular, look to us for responsible political leadership on, notwithstanding the important issues in which we have enduring disagreements.  I would like to thank Miguel Ángel and David for the wonderful spirit in which this meeting has taken place, for the constructive conversations that we have had, but most important of all for the commitment you have both shared with us to accelerating a process of reaching agreement in those areas.  

The wonderful thing about Buggins’ turn is that, at some point, it becomes the turn of Buggins.  Since we have now had a ministerial trilateral in that beautiful Spanish city that is Córdoba and in the wonderful city that is London today, it is my great pleasure to invite David and Miguel Ángel to come to Gibraltar for the third ministerial trilateral.

Q & A

Phil Hazlewood, AFP

Could you add some additional detail to what was agreed today?  Foreign Secretary, can you guarantee today that Britain will not cede sovereignty of Gibraltar to Spain?  What guarantees can you give the people of Gibraltar, who have voted in referenda to remain British, that this is not a back door deal by closer cooperation?

David Miliband

You will see further detail to the six areas in the statement, when it is issued.  In respect of the environment, we are talking about specific measures and protocols that threatened the shared environment.  On maritime, there is a need for comprehensive cooperation between ports.  The same cooperation is required in respect of crime and police.  That cooperation needs to be as close as possible, including on issues of illegal immigration.  On financial services and taxation, there is a determination to achieve a normal degree of cooperation at all levels, in relation to financial services policy.  On visas, we want to ensure that, notwithstanding the particular issues that exist, there are real solutions to the frustrations.  On education, we make the point that English and Spanish are two of the world’s great languages, and together cover large parts of the world.

In respect of sovereignty, it is not just me who can reassure the people of Gibraltar or Spain.  All three of us will make clear that this process does not threaten the back door to anywhere.  What this process is about is a front door to better lives for the people of Gibraltar and Spain.  In respect of the sovereignty issue, the position of the British Government has not changed, both in respect of substance and process.  In respect of substance, the UK will never enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass their sovereignty to another state against the wishes of the people of Gibraltar.  In respect of process, the UK will not enter a process of sovereignty negotiations with which Gibraltar is not content.  This process in which we are engaged is without prejudice to those issues; it is about the lives of the people.

Peter Caruana

There are two other further guarantees, as if guarantees were needed.  I am not sure they are because the documentation and the declarations setting up the process make it perfectly clear that they are entirely without prejudice to the position of all the parties on sovereignty including Spain, it has to be said, although he will no doubt speak for himself.

You will see that clause 4 of the communiqué makes it perfectly clear that we have reaffirmed that, as was the case with the Córdoba statements, any agreements that emerge in the areas that we have set ourselves as the future agenda would have no implication whatsoever on sovereignty.  If a better guarantee was needed then that, I would not be taking part in this, if there was any chance this was a back door to anything.

Miguel Ángel Moratinos

To reaffirm what has been said, Spain has the same position on sovereignty as Gibraltar and the UK have.  We have agreed not to prejudge whatever advance in cooperation.  We maintain our position.  Spain is maintaining her position about the future sovereignty of Gibraltar.  That is known; we continue.  At this stage in this process, we are discussing other issues.  

[Intervention by journalist]  
Well, I think it’s better in Spanish…

[Translation from Spanish]

I would like to know whether the British Foreign Affairs Minister and the Chief Minister of Gibraltar celebrated the victory of the Spanish Football Selection on Sunday?

Participant

I would like to know whether the Chief Minister of Gibraltar and the Foreign Affairs Secretary of the UK celebrated the Spanish victory in football on Sunday?

David Miliband

We certainly congratulate Spain on the result.  We of course point out that the critical goal came from Arsenal passing to Liverpool, so we feel a certain degree of co ownership of this process.  It is not that we have anything against our German friends, but of course Michael Ballack plays for Chelsea.  We congratulate Spain on their victory.  I am also happy to congratulate them on the style of their celebrations, which I think have been a model of how to celebrate victories.

Peter Caruana

If Gibraltar had been at the tournament the result might have been different.  Celebrations come in various forms and to various degrees.  We recognise that Spanish society was more than entitled to celebrate their victory the way they have, because it had been a wonderful performance of football.  On balance, the Spanish football team played the best quality football throughout the tournament and deserved to win.

Miguel Ángel Moratinos

Thank you, thank you... The truth is that there have been many calls. I have received many telephone calls, messages (of course, from my British friends). Well, we mustn’t forget that Fernando Torres played for Atlético Madrid (which is my team) and now plays for Liverpool. In other words, there has also been a British influence in the victory of Spain’s last goal.

Participant

I would like to ask Mr Caruana if he could identify some of the difficulties he mentioned and if he feels satisfied with the progress the trilaterals have been making in recent months.  Senor Moratinos, what do you identify as the destination of the trilateral process?

Miguel Ángel Moratinos

I think our end point is very clear; it is to break away from a lack of dialogue, understanding, comprehension and to improve the lives of the citizens who share the same space, without renouncing, as you have said, the claim of sovereignty that Spain has on Gibraltar. We see that this process can help give better understanding of the problems, the concerns of the citizens and give specific and concrete results. I believe that we are giving results; the citizens of the 21st century want results, they want the problems to be solved and logically, we governments must defend the sovereignty questions that concern us.

Peter Caruana

Of course we have different positions on the question of sovereignty, but we share the objectives as the Spanish Foreign Minister has just described them.  In respect to the question you addressed to me, it is worth pointing out that, in the first phase of this process, we were dealing with a negative agenda.  In other words, we were trying to resolve longstanding, historical but very specific problems with an aim and a clear dimension.  It was relatively easy to decide whether you had the political will to solve them, and then to solve them.  When they were political problems rather than technical problems, and the political will was placed on the table, the solution of those longstanding problems was relatively easy.

Now we are in a much more creative positive agenda territory, which requires more imagination.  It requires not just the reaching of agreements but the designing of the areas in which you want to reach agreement.  It is actually a much harder process, where many more departments of state need to be involved in the UK and Spain.  Other areas of the Gibraltar Government need to be involved, too, so there is a more cumbersome machinery to drag forward to reach agreements.

All of us have said that our political will is that no one should play these agreements for long, but the process is not for playing long; the process is, if anything, for acceleration.  At a political level, we have all expressed the will to reach agreements as quickly as possible and to encourage and, where necessary, oblige our officials to deliver that political will.  I do not think any of us have the political will to stop things from happening as quickly as possible.  It is to the contrary.  Yes, we would all like us to be further down the line, because that would mean that agreements would be closer.  On the day we have agreements, we will all be beneficiaries – Gibraltar, the UK and Spain.  The people of Gibraltar and the people of the Campo will be huge beneficiaries of the agreements that we hope to strike and, therefore, the sooner we have them, the better for us all.

Nick Childs, BBC

This is to all three gentlemen really, but particular to the Foreign Secretary.  Do you have a reaction to the bulldozer incident in west Jerusalem this morning, which has left a number of people dead and seriously injured?

David Miliband

As I was leaving my office this morning, the first reports were coming through of this incident.  One’s first thoughts are for the victims and relatives of the victims.  We extend our heartfelt condolences to them, and share their horror at this event, the loss of life and the injuries that have been involved.  
Our second thought is for the process of building a Middle East peace that is enduring and viable, which combines security for Israel and justice for the Palestinians in the creation of a Palestinian state.  In that context, we wait to hear further details of who claims responsibility for this horrific attack.  Miguel Ángel is well known for his longstanding commitment to the Middle East peace process and his role as the European envoy earlier in this century, after 2000.  All three of us are committed, as any thinking person is, to keeping alive the hope of a viable two state solution in the Middle East, because it offers security to all sides.  Anything that threatens that is a threat to the whole region.  I anticipate receiving further details of this when I return to my office.

Participant

Regarding the New Flame, apart from the need to promote cooperation mechanisms, could you specify what mechanisms you have discussed?

Miguel Ángel Moratinos

As we have already mentioned, it is perhaps the most positive and effective result coming from the Tripartite meeting today. Regarding the environment and shipping, one decision adopted is that there will be a liaison officer in the port of Algeciras and another liaison officer in the port of Gibraltar. These officers will be constant contact, in early alert. The minute an incident arises (as was in the case of the New Flame), they can act, prevent and solve environmental problems. This is our aim; not just in this decision adopted today on liaison officers, but that our leaders in the next meeting will have to follow up in the next ministerial meeting in September. They will start working to find joint mechanisms, joint actions to exactly prevent and avoid that situation.  The Autonomous Government of Andalusia, as you know, is extremely interested and involved in this issue. There was a representative from the Autonomous Government at the meeting. We all want to work on this challenge, a shared goal which is to protect the environment of a bay as beautiful as the Bay of Gibraltar.

Journalist, GBC News

One of the agreements made in Córdoba in 2006 was for improved frontier fluidity.  Do the parties feel that improvements have been made, particularly in the light of the last week, when a national police strike in Spain caused some problems to traffic in Gibraltar?

David Miliband

You will see in the statement that there has been an increase of about 25% in the flow through, but that is not the only issue.  Today, we discussed the implementation of measures to make the flow as free as possible.

Peter Caruana

First of all, I do not think we should focus the issue – and there is an issue in your question that needs to be addressed – on a period of time in which there is an industrial relations problem, because that could affect any one of us at any time.  I hope that will not last forever and that people on both sides of the border will not suffer the inconvenience of others exercising their rights to take whatever action their laws give to take, by way of industrial dispute management.  

That said, it needs to be recognised that there is a perception, both in Gibraltar and in the Campo that, whereas for a long time after Córdoba the border situation was much better than it had been before and, indeed, is still much better than it was before Córdoba, there is a gradual erosion of the very good systems that were put in place after Córdoba in their practical implementation on a day to day basis – not any political decision to change them – which results in the daily system slowing down.  We have discussed that, and I am very satisfied that these issues would be resolved.  Miguel Ángel Moratinos has assured me, and I accept, that these are practicalities that will be addressed.  There is a perception that things got hugely better; they are still better than they were, but some of the original gain has now been lost.  There is a commitment to retrieve that as soon as possible.

Miguel Ángel Moratinos

To add that if we analyse the situation, take an evaluation of what the traffic across the boarder has been in recent years, the comparison after Cordoba is amazing. Nine million visitors have passed; a 25% increase in passenger traffic, vehicular traffic flows better, is better controlled. Although the Chief Minister, my friend Peter, has indicated in the meeting that he has had the feeling that it was eroding the spirit and actions of Cordoba, I insist that this is not the case, that there is no ‘erosion’… There may have been an incident at some time, an attitude but I can assure you that the Spanish Government is committed to improving the flow, making traffic easier, to allowing the exchange of people and goods in the best way possible because it reflects the overall spirit of this Tripartite Forum on Gibraltar. We are here to improve relations, to strengthen relations, to improve trust and to facilitate exchange between citizens in Gibraltar and in Campo de Gibraltar. Hence, it is a primary aim.

David Miliband

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much.